tax reforms we would never allow tax reform to hide a tax increase. periodically politics and -- this a tax reform the what they mean is they want to raise taxes. two ways to raise income taxes, raise the rate or broaden the base to bring the rates down. the pledge says no raising the rates and, two, if you want to get rid of deductions and credits, that is great but bring the rates down dollar for dollar. paul ryanhat does. host: chris on the republican line. you are on what grover norquist. caller: thank you for c-span. norquist, i think there is a big problem. perception is everything when it comes to marketing and it is the perception that the democrats are able to get across. because the democrats, they know their audience, they know who they are pandering to, they know who they are selling to. and they treat them like stupid children. and it works. i will give you an example. you remember when the bush tax tom- first came out and shall and dick gephardt -- tom daschle and dick kept part, the minority leaders, did not have anything, but yet they